I got my IA on June 2nd. June 17th I took some friends up and I poked
through a puff of a cloud. It was IMC but only about 0.01 hours but
it counted. :) Well today I was flying back to the bay area from
up north. SQL was reporting scattered at 2500 and I wanted to shoot
an approach with my pilot friend as safety pilot and without ticking
off approach for the GPS into SQL or waiting forever to shoot it.
I figured I'd shoot the HWD LOC-DME 28L and then break off VFR to SQL.
Well my friend said, "hmm, we'll be flying through some clouds. cool."
He's starting his IFR training tomorrow. Well about 2600 MSL we
entered the clouds. We broke out inside the FAF about 850 MSL (800 AGL)
with an MDA of 400. No problem at all. I got 11 hours of actual during
my training and the probably 20 hours at night (good substitute) so I
I'm semi-comfortable in IMC but certainly won't push it in LIFR.

Interestingly, they usually have you maintain VFR at or below 1000 until
the shoreline. It was clear for the most part past the shoreline.
We broke off at 700 and turned to the shore. I quickly realized it
was a bad idea. I basically did a circle
to land back on 28L. Tower knew what was happening (they knew I was
goiing to SQL VFR). While on base
they arranged for an IFR clearance to SQL (route = Radar vectors).
I got RV out over the bay and cancelled IFR.

Wow. I thought only "real" pilots did this stuff. :) I'm not
about to start going down to minimums in the mountains, single
engine at night but for the first time I realized, "wow, no
instructor and, holy sh*t, I can really do this." :)

Gerald Sylvester

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:51:17 GMT, "G. Sylvester"
> wrote:


>Wow. I thought only "real" pilots did this stuff. :) I'm not
>about to start going down to minimums in the mountains, single
>engine at night but for the first time I realized, "wow, no
>instructor and, holy sh*t, I can really do this." :)

Empowering, isn't it?

Real IMC is all about what happens when something goes wrong. That
should give you something to think about. Nice job and good luck in the
future.

On 7/11/2005 00:51, G. Sylvester wrote:

[ snip great story ]

> Wow. I thought only "real" pilots did this stuff. :) I'm not
> about to start going down to minimums in the mountains, single
> engine at night but for the first time I realized, "wow, no
> instructor and, holy sh*t, I can really do this." :)
>
> Gerald Sylvester

Yesterday was my Part 141 Stage II flight check. This was the first
time I've shot a practice approach without my CFII's help. At first,
I was a little nervous, but then I realized that I've done this a
few times now, and I know how it works (as much as I can at this point
in my training, anyway). After that, I calmed down and flew the
approaches!

It was a great feeling!

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

Never descend until you feel comfortable about your location. You can always
ask for delay vectors or just plain ask to stay (relatively) high until you
feel comfortable. Just because ATC says "Descend and maintain...." does not
mean that you have to obey without question. Use this sparingly, however,
lest you be vectored 20 miles away while everyone else shoots the approach.

Bob Gardner

"G. Sylvester" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> I got my IA on June 2nd. June 17th I took some friends up and I poked
> through a puff of a cloud. It was IMC but only about 0.01 hours but
> it counted. :) Well today I was flying back to the bay area from
> up north. SQL was reporting scattered at 2500 and I wanted to shoot
> an approach with my pilot friend as safety pilot and without ticking
> off approach for the GPS into SQL or waiting forever to shoot it.
> I figured I'd shoot the HWD LOC-DME 28L and then break off VFR to SQL.
> Well my friend said, "hmm, we'll be flying through some clouds. cool."
> He's starting his IFR training tomorrow. Well about 2600 MSL we
> entered the clouds. We broke out inside the FAF about 850 MSL (800 AGL)
> with an MDA of 400. No problem at all. I got 11 hours of actual during
> my training and the probably 20 hours at night (good substitute) so I
> I'm semi-comfortable in IMC but certainly won't push it in LIFR.
>
> Interestingly, they usually have you maintain VFR at or below 1000 until
> the shoreline. It was clear for the most part past the shoreline.
> We broke off at 700 and turned to the shore. I quickly realized it
> was a bad idea. I basically did a circle
> to land back on 28L. Tower knew what was happening (they knew I was
> goiing to SQL VFR). While on base
> they arranged for an IFR clearance to SQL (route = Radar vectors).
> I got RV out over the bay and cancelled IFR.
>
> Wow. I thought only "real" pilots did this stuff. :) I'm not
> about to start going down to minimums in the mountains, single
> engine at night but for the first time I realized, "wow, no
> instructor and, holy sh*t, I can really do this." :)
>
> Gerald Sylvester
>
>
>

it still amazes me when I shoot an approach and the airport appears in
front of me. very satisfying.
Michelle

G. Sylvester wrote:

>
> I got my IA on June 2nd. June 17th I took some friends up and I poked
> through a puff of a cloud. It was IMC but only about 0.01 hours but
> it counted. :) Well today I was flying back to the bay area from
> up north. SQL was reporting scattered at 2500 and I wanted to shoot
> an approach with my pilot friend as safety pilot and without ticking
> off approach for the GPS into SQL or waiting forever to shoot it.
> I figured I'd shoot the HWD LOC-DME 28L and then break off VFR to SQL.
> Well my friend said, "hmm, we'll be flying through some clouds. cool."
> He's starting his IFR training tomorrow. Well about 2600 MSL we
> entered the clouds. We broke out inside the FAF about 850 MSL (800 AGL)
> with an MDA of 400. No problem at all. I got 11 hours of actual during
> my training and the probably 20 hours at night (good substitute) so I
> I'm semi-comfortable in IMC but certainly won't push it in LIFR.
>
> Interestingly, they usually have you maintain VFR at or below 1000 until
> the shoreline. It was clear for the most part past the shoreline.
> We broke off at 700 and turned to the shore. I quickly realized it
> was a bad idea. I basically did a circle
> to land back on 28L. Tower knew what was happening (they knew I was
> goiing to SQL VFR). While on base
> they arranged for an IFR clearance to SQL (route = Radar vectors).
> I got RV out over the bay and cancelled IFR.
>
> Wow. I thought only "real" pilots did this stuff. :) I'm not
> about to start going down to minimums in the mountains, single
> engine at night but for the first time I realized, "wow, no
> instructor and, holy sh*t, I can really do this." :)
>
> Gerald Sylvester
>
>
>

Michelle P wrote:
> it still amazes me when I shoot an approach and the airport appears in
> front of me. very satisfying.

the ultimate video game.

--Sylvain

Bob Gardner wrote:
> Never descend until you feel comfortable about your location. You can always
> ask for delay vectors or just plain ask to stay (relatively) high until you
> feel comfortable. Just because ATC says "Descend and maintain...." does not
> mean that you have to obey without question.

I asked my CFI about descending when cleared for an approach. He said
exactly what you said. Calculate your 500 fpm descent to arrive at
the crossing altitude a few miles before you reach the fix. I did this
on my checkride and got a compliment over it from the DE. He said he's
used to students descending immediately even though they could be far
far away from the fix. I gotta thank my friend Mark who flies for UA
as he gave me a good way of briefing for this using the MSA.

>Use this sparingly, however,
> lest you be vectored 20 miles away while everyone else shoots the approach.
> Bob Gardner

especially considering it was into HWD which is right underneath and
overlapping the approach paths for OAK.

Gerald

Nathan Young wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:51:17 GMT, "G. Sylvester"
> > wrote:
>
>
>
>>Wow. I thought only "real" pilots did this stuff. :) I'm not
>>about to start going down to minimums in the mountains, single
>>engine at night but for the first time I realized, "wow, no
>>instructor and, holy sh*t, I can really do this." :)
> Empowering, isn't it?

yes. I thought only Airline pilots do this. Not lil' ole me. :)

And a thanks to everyone for my all the discussions too!

Gerald

I used to deliver freight into OAK at 0100 every morning, so I know what you
are talking about with regard to HWD.

I never related MSA to anything other than emergency use. I see far too many
posts in the ngs where the pilot is trying to include the MSA in the
procedure, and it has no place in the procedure. YMMV.

Bob

"G. Sylvester" > wrote in message
.. .
> Bob Gardner wrote:
>> Never descend until you feel comfortable about your location. You can
>> always ask for delay vectors or just plain ask to stay (relatively) high
>> until you feel comfortable. Just because ATC says "Descend and
>> maintain...." does not mean that you have to obey without question.
>
> I asked my CFI about descending when cleared for an approach. He said
> exactly what you said. Calculate your 500 fpm descent to arrive at
> the crossing altitude a few miles before you reach the fix. I did this
> on my checkride and got a compliment over it from the DE. He said he's
> used to students descending immediately even though they could be far
> far away from the fix. I gotta thank my friend Mark who flies for UA
> as he gave me a good way of briefing for this using the MSA.
>
>>Use this sparingly, however, lest you be vectored 20 miles away while
>>everyone else shoots the approach.
>> Bob Gardner
>
> especially considering it was into HWD which is right underneath and
> overlapping the approach paths for OAK.
>
> Gerald
>

Bob Gardner wrote:
> I never related MSA to anything other than emergency use. I see far too many
> posts in the ngs where the pilot is trying to include the MSA in the
> procedure, and it has no place in the procedure. YMMV.

I know what you mean and usually if it is an emergency, looking at the
plate, figuring out where you are and which way you have to go might
be too late.

My friend (and i guess the rest of UA pilots) simply use it to get an
idea of the height of obstacles/terrain for descent planning. If the
MSA is 1000' AGL, you are pretty free
to descend anytime. If it is 6000' AGL, well you know where the
terrain/obstacles are and you should take a closer look at exactly
where they are and probably best to descend much later on in
the approach. I guess the best example is you are getting RV to
a fix. You are off of an established airway and the controller
says "Cleared for the approach...cross XXX at 3000." The MSA gives
you an idea when to get down in a safe manner. Agreed that it is quite
basic without too much use.


Gerald